Empty categories.. Good or Bad?

[Simon Gooffin]

Empty categories.. I do not remember if we have already discussed this question before. But I think it's very important to understand if it's good for SE to have lots of categories or bad. I ofter see hundreds or even thousands of categories but very few links. Most categories do not contain any links at all. Any thoughts? Please share.

[redeye]

Don't know what effect it has on SEO, but when I visit a directory and see all those empty categories I feel I've visited an amateur site and don't go back.

Just like going into a supermarket with empty shelves!

[Ryan]

Thats a good question, if you do have a lot of empy categories then visitors might not come back, but if you dont have the categories, webmasters might not submit their sites. So at the start i think its good to have the empty categories to allow webmaster to submit, then maybe after a few months you can trim some of the empty categories out but in all I think they are needed.

[Simon Gooffin]

Ok, thanks for sharing your ideas about visitors. But there is another important thing called Search Engine Optimization. Do search engine spiders like tons of similar pages with the only difference - category titles? That's the question that bothers me a lot also.

[Sai_dallas]

Simon,

If there is lot of empty categories search engines do not like that.

That is why it will take time for a Directory to get good PR.

There is no easy escape; you have to have empty categories in the beginning to let the user know where their link should be.

If you are manually adding links, it is better you cover the empty categories then adding links in the same category.

Thanks
Sai

[Sai_dallas]

A Major help is having a .htm or .html file for each category.

You may check http://www.Onebigtravel.com (http://www.onebigtravel.com/)

This site is indexed better as soon as I started that site.

I need to get this site to esyndicat 1.2 as soon as I can but do not have time. Older version is installed but the links were not moved at that time.

So, I am still pointing to cpLinks version on that site.

I like cpLinks software but, there is no help of any kind.
(Do not use it – you can not get any support)

Thanks
Sai

EDIT: This site is since converted to eSyndicat.

[jschodde]

My thoughts on this were to have a very visible message in the empty category like "Be the first to add your listing here!" with a hyperlink to the "Suggest a Link" page.

[subseo]

But there is another important thing called Search Engine Optimization. Do search engine spiders like tons of similar pages with the only difference - category titles? That's the question that bothers me a lot also.
I had directories with plenty (over 90 percent) of empty categories and whole directory was spidered just fine. That was months and months ago.

Recently, though, I have felt Google is much less prone to deep-index directories (general ones) than it was in the past.


That is why it will take time for a Directory to get good PR.

To get good PR, all you need is links. To get PR5, all you usually need is 1 link from a PR7-8 page. Then wait for next Google update, and you got the PR.

Though, this is not general rule. Recently I have seen a directory that has hundreds of thousands incoming links, and it has also high PR links, but is only PR4 or what, while in the past I think it was PR6 or 7. A mystery.

Anyway, Google is more and more on the watch for duplicate content and general directories serving only as link-farms.


A Major help is having a .htm or .html file for each category.

Nowadays, this is being denoted as "popular myth" by most SEO experts.

[szolo]

Empty catagory pages most likely be virtually the same (very little difference between and empty employment cat page and a empty training catagory page this may be viewed by google as content or page duplication, which you want to avoid.

[glen]

"Anyway, Google is more and more on the watch for duplicate content and general directories serving only as link-farms."
Google is so smart that I can't believe

[Nick Collins]

I agree with you, glen! BTW welcome to our community!

[Simon Gooffin]

Simon,
If there is lot of empty categories search engines do not like that.

sure, I completely agree with you Sai :) but there are some other webmasters in our support forums that have a really great number of empty categories. I created this poll for them mostly to understand it's better to find a compromise of links and categories :)

[Michele]

Someone mentioned adding some place holder text in the empty categories.

Could we have something like: Be the first to add your link to <category name>!

Where the scripts fill in the category name.

That way it would provide a sentence that has a keyword in it as well as invite visitors to add their site. And make the page look better.

[Simon Gooffin]

Use the following smarty tag to display your category title. {$category.title}

[pgolovko]

Don't know what effect it has on SEO, but when I visit a directory and see all those empty categories I feel I've visited an amateur site and don't go back.

Just like going into a supermarket with empty shelves!

Completely agree with you B)

[woeanl]

Could we have something like: Be the first to add your link to <category name>!

Use the following smarty tag to display your category title. {$category.title}


Hello,
where exactly can we place the {$category.title} ?
In the header.tpl? Or do you mean the Admin area of eSyndicat?

[SkGold]

To have a lot of empty categories is bad from any side:
1. SE defiantly will see them as similar pages - duplicate content.
2. When visitors will arrive to the empty category 2 or 3 times they will close your site and probably will never come back. We are building our sites for the visitors, isn’t it?
3. For webmasters it is very simple work around. Put “Suggest Category” link on every page of your site. See this site (http://www.site-sift.com)as example.

This secret to start successful directory is the same as with forums. It is much, much better to have only 4 categories with 20 listings in each than 100 categories with one listing in each.

[Simon Gooffin]

It is much, much better to have only 4 categories with 20 listings in each than 100 categories with one listing in each.
I agree with you. In this case pages will differ much more and it will not cause any problems.

[wcaa987]

My personal thoughts on the subject.

Worst case, SE's will see empty cats as duplicate content and penalise the site.

Best case, very little if no bennifit to the site.

From an all-round veiw, I think it's best to create a category and populate it with at least a couple of listings. Personally, I try for 5 - 10 listings for the following bennifits:

1. Content. Each listing is feature rich content with keywords about the category. Tip - choose websites with strong keywords in their name and URL.

2. Bait. When a webmaster finds your site and see his competitors listed on your directory, he/she will want to also submit their site to your directory. Nobody wants to be the first to submit to an empty directory - I don't know why, but thats the way it arrears to me.

3. Audience. Why would someone want to vistit your site if there is nothing there? That leads to the next question - why would someone want to advertise on your site if you have no visitors. Reminds me of the chicken and the egg - which came first? By populating your directory with listings, you can draw visitors in via SE's and sell advertising/directory listings.

4. By adding 10 listings (I presume to have 10 listings per page), I can "encourage" a webmaster who submits their site (free listing, and appears on page 2) to pay a small amount of money for a better position on page 1 with a sponsored listing. What a dirty sneak I am!

I see alot of what appears to be abandend web directories. Fresh installs with no thought of design (most with the default template and zero customisation) and empty categories. I wonder what google sees?

I beleive that after launching a website, 50% of my time goes in to external SEO, link exchange, link submissions etc and 50% goes towards internal SEO. Most of the time, I don't bother with with meta keywords & descriptions. I put time in to naming good categories and more importantly givings the cats good descriptions and even more importantly again, providing quality links with keyword rich descriptions.

After all that, I think it's obvious that I am against empty categories. I hope that my post encourages, inspires and motivates some of you newbies to fill up your empty categories.

[thewashman]

I have a few years of SEO experience under my belt and will explain search engines logic to you. When speaking in terms of categories and having sub-categories underneath them. Yes, you want to have a variety of sub-categories and use these sub-category names in the Main Categories keywords and even the Meta Descrtiption. e.g. If my "Business" category has the sub categories "Internet" and "Home Based" I would definitely use keywords like these: "submit,url,link,directory,business,internet,home based" and so on. Also having these sub-categories help with adding some content on your pages as well as having links with those words that lead to your site help. Yes reciprocal linking help out big time! The more links the better, although some may not help you, they will never hurt you.

[thewashman]

One more thing. Simon, I find that it would help you if you manually ad some links in each categories. What I am doing is looking for non-profits, and informational web sites to add in these empty categories. This should by all means help you with any empty categories.

[SkGold]

It is very good suggestions from wcaa987. :good:

Worst case, SE's will see empty cats as duplicate content and penalise the site.

Just a small correction. The duplicate content is not a penalty; it is just not a good practice. :)

[Simon Gooffin]

Completely agree with wcaa987 & thewashman
We never keep our directory categories empty at all.

50% goes towards internal SEO. Most of the time, I don't bother with with meta keywords & descriptions. I put time in to naming good categories and more importantly givings the cats good descriptions and even more importantly again, providing quality links with keyword rich descriptions.
In some seo resources I read HTML code also affect site position or to be more true the percentage of real content in total html.

[thewashman]

Well I know that I would not leave my keywords blank. This can be used to optimize each page for the category title, and make it look like a different page to search engines. So when people use search terms like: Submit Site to "specific category". Your site is likely to show up if your category, description and keywords match his search terms. I know that people looking for directories usually search for a specific kind of directory. Oh yeah, some people use submission assistant programs usually this program will find them directories to submit to by searching for these terms. Submit,URL,Directory,Link,"Their sites main keyword" so if their site uses "Chat" as their main keyword, their submission program searches for Submit,URL,Directory,Link,Chat. Then gives them a list of however many directories they asked for. So if your directory is not on to of Search Engines there is a good possibilty it will still be found by submission programs if your category name, keywords, ans description are set right.

[lumi]

reasons to write a bit unique content for each category:

1. even with e.g. {$category.title} you have 95% the same content than all the other empty categories

2. looks good for visitors

3. spider robots are greedy to grab the content

4. even with a few entries is your category still more unique

only mmy 2 cent but with my 568 categories it's a big job so those tips are only theory

lumi

[pipc01]

I am pleased I have found this thread, having created another directory of directories, I submitted it everywhere possible, including a very expensive directory, who spat me out, I assume because I was the same old same old. Having felt at first bitter, I then decided to look and improve my site. So I have started writing a good? article on each catagory page, (before I found this thread) knowing already that google loves fresh content and pages with good keyword content. I have learnt from this thread to go add some directories free, in order to get rid of the ghost feel factor, thank you all.

[ganodan]

Hi,
I would like to say that for a great script, not many are using it to it's best, as most of the site's I have looked at can be deemed as link farms.

Discription and Meta: Discription are the most important start to any categorie, not having links in it does not matter, as long as the page discription has some content, most of the sites I have looked at have nothing in them, hoping for someone to come along and add their link.

The only way that most are getting listing is from this forum, there is no way that they will be found any other way.

Suggestion: Ad a discription the meta can be the same, add keyword from the discription, however this is not as important as the discription as Google only reads the discription, then bases the keywords from the first paragrath, thou Yahoo & MSN looks for Meta: keywords.

As I am Australian, I will make a suggestion as to an Australian related categorie, and regardless of links not being in it, seach engines will not see it as a empty categorie.

Title: Australia

Discription: Australia is also known as the land downunder, Australia has many natural wonders including the Great Barrier Reef, feel free to suggest a categorie related to Australia or add a link for review.

Meta Discription: add same as above.

Keywords: australia, downunder, natural, natural wonders, australia downunder, barrier reef, reef, great barrier reef, barrier reef australia, suggest link, add link,

With that added, your Australia categorie can now be picked up and indexed by search engines, where it would be over looked with just with a title "Australia", that includes visitors looking add there link.

Follow this rule to all your categories, as I say "Rome was not built in a day, BUT, it was built on a plan"

If you plan to get the best out of this great script, Putting “Suggest Category” link on every page of your site, will not do it.

My directory is still some time away before going live, just adding a few words makes a big differance in the end.

I hope this helps.
Dan.

PS: Great Script, once you learn how to drive it :good:

[ganodan]

PPS: Anyone wanting to add an Australian link to their directory, please feel free to add mine.

Title: Let's Connect Australia

Link: http://www.letsconnect.com.au/

Description: Let's Connect Australia, Holiday & Accommodation Directory Guide, looking for accommodation, tours, cruises, real estate, fishing the Great Barrier Reef, Australian holiday & travel, news & community information.

Mail: teamgano1 & yahoo - com - au

Code: Thank You

[digitalfog]

Don't know what effect it has on SEO, but when I visit a directory and see all those empty categories I feel I've visited an amateur site and don't go back.

Just like going into a supermarket with empty shelves!

I agree 100% with this. I still think too much emphasis is given to PR when webmasters are trying to establish or maintain a site. It's all about traffic - and big traffic doesn't necessarily mean a high PR ranking.

We have our share of websites that have a very low PR. Doesn't bother me a bit because some of these sites receive much more traffic and are more profitable than other sites with high PR's.